[ Music ] ^M00:01:08 >> This program was made possible from the support of VSA of Texas and Amerigroup. ^M00:01:19 [ Music ] ^M00:01:32 >> Rise up, Amerigroup. >> The following program may contain strong language and brief nudity. But don't get your hopes up. After all, this is public access t.v. >> I'm Gene. >> And I'm Dave. >> And we're the Gene and Dave Show. >> Dave, this is our lucky day. Today we have with us the famous photographer documentarian, Tom Olin. >> Welcome, Tom. Thank you so much for being here. Man, I can't believe I'm sitting by the guy that I've been looking at pictures on calendars and websites and any movie I ever see that has to do with disability rights or disability anything, there's at least one if not a hundred pictures from Tom Olin on that video. So welcome. We're really glad you're here. >> My pleasure. >> I met Tom almost 30 years ago while we were doing a protest, and Tom was taking photos, and we got a chance to talk a little bit. Not much because I had to do my part. He had to do his, but we struck up a conversation, and here it is almost 30 years later, and as you say, Dave, his pictures are everywhere. >> Yeah, and it's kind of funny as we were sitting down here in the studio, Tom had a little deja vu moment and started telling us about how he got started so let's hear that story. How did you get started on taking pictures? >> Well, went through -- it was kind of funny because I never picked up a camera when I was a kid like a lot of -- you would think that I would have been a little more interested in photography, but it wasn't until I came back from Brazil with a -- kind of a -- I'm going to say a vision of what I should do for the rest of my life and that was to be involved with disability. Prior to going to Brazil, I worked as an orderly in a rehab hospital, and that's where I met Diane Coleman who runs -- who started Not Dead Yet and was one of our leading attorneys and had worked with Steve Gold at times, and Baby Doe cases, different little cases around that -- was a part of our history, and that was in Los Angeles where I had just come down from Berkeley, realized that there wasn't very much happening in Berkeley. I felt where would you go if you came back from Brazil and said I am going to do something in the world of disability and disability rights. Well, there was only place I could think of and that was Berkeley, and so I went right to Berkeley and found out that movement had gone away or it wasn't there anymore. That's the type of movement that actually [inaudible] the streets and roaming the streets and whatever. >> So you went to the party just to find out that the party was over? >> Yes. But I did learn how to take pictures at that point. I said, let me get some media while I'm staying here. And so I did pick up the camera at that point and moved down to L.A. where they had just started a new state chapter of the state disability -- I know I'm trying to remember this name, and I -- it was -- well anyhow -- >> Roland? >> No. It was the state organization that was the largest in the U.S. statewide, and we just started a new chapter down in L.A., which included Paul Longmore, which included Ann Finger, writer, Ann Finger. Of course, Paul Longmore was another historian and a writer and there were just Diane involved. Carol Gill, which I call the mother of disability culture, she was there. There were just a lot of great people. Barbara Waspin, one of the earliest feminists in our fight for the ADA and fight for rights around that time. So we started a chapter -- a local chapter, and I started to take pictures of -- for our local newsletter. And that's how it kind of started. >> But you took more than pictures, Tom. When you take a picture, you tell a story. Let's look at this first picture. This is some folks marching with a flag, and you -- this is a great shot. I love to see. See a crowd of people. You see the flag. So you know the flag to me always says something patriotic. It's something about this country, and of course, protesting is one of the rights that we enjoy in this country. And there's quite a few people in this picture. >> While we're trying to get that picture up -- we do have -- actually the flag itself is an interesting story. It was actually done at a kitchen table, and we didn't know what it was going to look like. We had gone out, Mike Auberger who was working with Wade Blank in Denver doing ADAPT, and I lived in Denver a few years after that, but during this time, we're passing through, Diane Coleman and I, and I said okay, we're going to Philadelphia. We need a flag. That's the birthplace, and we'll make our own flag. And so we got this American flag, and we took the stars off. I said what are we going to do with the stars? Let's -- first let's make the [inaudible] -- >> Symbol of the symbol of accessibility. >> Right. The access symbol, and then it kind of looked pretty good. >> Hence the stick figure there. >> Yeah. Well, the stars made the -- >> And then you decided to use the stars. >> Yeah, we used the stars and that flag -- actually the flag that you see there was buried with Wade Blank. But it was so funny. We were all like putting stars and Babs Johnson was also there and Diane and myself. And I jump up and I said, "Where's my camera? This is Betsy Ross. This is like I got to get my camera and take some pictures of this." And so that was interesting time with the flag. The march itself. We had just done a demonstration at the White House, and in this picture, there's our senator. >> Harkin? >> Harkin. Tom Harkin. In fact, I was just showing this to Tom. Tom and I were Senator Harkin and I were at a museum in Chicago that had an exhibit of mine, and it was the first time he had seen this picture, and there you have Ralph [inaudible] from American Way. You have [inaudible]. You had [inaudible] George in that picture. You have Evan Kemp back here. He was the head of the EEOC Commission under George Bush. I mean, interesting picture if you can see all the -- there's a kid Ñ which he was -- I don't even know if he as a teenager. He was probably just becoming a teenager at that point. Ryan Dumpingwood (sp?) who now is -- he's secretary for the organization Self Advocates. He grew up to be a really great advocate. >> So quite a story associated with this picture and quite a crowd. >> On the way to the capitol. And this is the same day also where we had the rally at the capital and right after the rally someone says, "We're going to go to the steps of the -- behind where we're at, and we are going up." >> I'll tell you what. Before we go up the steps, let's take another look at another group of people. >> Talking about the people that are in this picture. I see some of our own Austin favorites and ADAPT favorites. Stephanie Thomas right there kind of leading the pack as she always does. >> Right. Right up front there, yeah. >> And you were talking about -- you were talking about Jennifer, the girl with -- >> CP. >> CP, and that's actually my mother pushing her. >> Wow. >> And you have another Texan that was Frank Lazono. >> Yeah, from El Paso. >> Here's another picture. I like this because it shows a crowd. I mean, it's a lot of people. Sometimes on the news they'll focus in on just three or four people, but there is quite a crowd there. >> One of the things that I really wanted to do back then was to show how big and powerful we were. ^M00:13:05 This was outside the city hall in San Francisco. And it was a sight that they don't get to see all the time even during the time of when Berkeley was doing its thing. It was at the right time. With our movement, we have to show up over and over again because not only are elected officials different at times, but we had to give power to ourselves too. So we have to show that power and give that power so we can move on. And we're still -- even though these demonstrations turned into the legislation of the ADA, we still have to fight for that every day. Even right now there's a fight in the house and the senate to lower the expectations of the ADA and making sure that the business people have not only one year but maybe a couple of years, even have a plan. It's something that we have to always be constant about. >> I like this picture, Tom, because well it's an outside photo, and it shows some people out in the cold, and it shows we're pretty serious about this stuff. I mean, nothing's going to stop us. Cold weather, wind, rain, whatever. They're out there. >> But also from an artistic point of view. You got this line running right up through the middle where you've got one side on one and another side on the other, just very -- it's poetic as Gene was saying. Your pictures speak a thousand words. It's incredible art. >> The artist eye absolutely. >> That was in Montreal. It was actually a few times we went outside the country to make our voices heard. And what was interesting, the local disability groups were scared to come and work with us because they're so tethered to the government that they were scared that they -- if they came and fought with us they would lose their benefits. >> They would lose what they did have. >> Even worse is that the police were so scared of us. Right after -- not after -- time after the French resurrection up there and they hadn't had anything like this since they actually rented a helicopter and they were so scared that I actually went into -- we're right in front of the Queen Elizabeth Hotel. And when -- it's always fun to see a march because a good police department [inaudible] involvement of their status of -- ^M00:16:44 [ Inaudible ] ^M00:16:45 And so you have [inaudible] following them, and I had at that time a KPFA which is a radio station out in California, public radio station, radio, had the press documents and using a camera. When they checked me as I was following them into the Queen Elizabeth Hotel, they just looked at it said, okay, okay. They didn't realize it was radio and what am I doing with it. But they were carrying -- all the policeman were carrying a satchel and that was one of the reasons I was kind of going because it kind of looked like you could put a gun in it and a rifle. And so they went to this room and sure enough, not only was there a rifle, there were all machine guns. >> Oh, geez. >> That's how scared they were. >> Wow. >> They had heard that the people that -- all these people -- most of these people with disabilities are people that are on SSI that -- a lot of them have come from institutions and -- are pretty disabled from quads to paras and whatever, and -- but they had been told there were Vietnam vets, and not only are you -- might be scared of Vietnam vets, but on their wheelchairs, they would say, do you remember Ben Hur and the wheels that had the -- >> Spikes. >> Spikes and stuff like that? That's what they were doing -- had to deal with. >> They were ready with machine guns. >> Here's another one showing the confrontation between the police and the protesters. Although we subscribe to nonviolent direct action, sometimes it can still get -- pretty heated. People are going to stand their grounds on both sides, but again the people in cold weather, as uncomfortable as it can be, they've got to show they're here for a reason. And they're not going to let anything stop them. >> Right, and this group right here which is made up of a lot of people from ADAPT. Back then, it was American Disabled for Accessible Public Transit, and that was their major issue up until the ADA was passed. We just took -- that group said okay, let's just take one issue and go after it. And two their -- they really -- they understood that, and it was easy for the public to understand that one issue. It was just like we could all understand during the black civil rights movement that Rosa Parks couldn't get up to the front of the bus. Of course, we couldn't even get on the bus. It was the easy one to -- >> I notice Bob Kafka right here in the center of this picture. ^M00:20:21 Another Austin favorite. He's been on the Gene and Dave Show. >> Right, yeah. Let's check out another one here. >> I just had to put this one in because these people are out braving the cold and you see blankets here, and it shows the power of just a couple of people in wheelchair to stop an entire bus. And of course when you stop the one bus the traffic behind it is stopped and you get a lot of attention. That was a very, very cold day. That was outside the Department of Transportation in Washington, D.C. The good thing is that if you do -- if you do capture a city bus, you will be arrested by city people, and they have jails so these people have been out all night long. >> Oh my gosh. >> So they were just looking to be arrested. Get warmed up in jail. >> Yeah, they're looking for lifts and also I see they're on steps. >> Yeah. >> And there's a sign that says show me a lift. But it probably talked about lift for a bus, but ramps are also important to get into buildings and -- >> It was also a way to -- if you close this down, the people that used it had to kind of be -- they had to find another place, another way, something that we all -- >> Were these the stairs going into a bus terminal or something? >> This is actually a hotel that was having a meeting for the bus companies. >> Oh wow. Excellent. >> Show me a lift. Because back then they would tell the press that the lift was so expensive that they could not put it on, and you could show them except that these buses last for 20 years. You divide that into those 20 years, that lift really isn't very much compared to anything else that that bus has. >> You're absolutely right. Yeah. >> And here -- this is my favorite picture you took, Tom. This is in the rotunda. >> And I know why because Gene's in here. >> What? I'm in there? >> Back of your neck with no ponytail. >> Well, right you are, Dave. There I am in the lower right corner with my back to the camera. I've got the white backpack on the chair, and I'm -- >> He's still wearing a hat, though. He's always wearing a hat. >> My touring cap there. >> But yeah, this was shortly before they voted on the ADA,and we heard there was an attempt to weaken the ADA so we all got into the rotunda to show how serious we were about it and shortly after this picture was taken, they started arresting people. >> Started arresting -- the thing is that they were -- the shouting and the protesting could be heard all throughout that capitol, and we had congressmen come down and kind of look stern, but they'd come down still those that were for us would say keep it up. Everyone could hear you. It was really important. The pictures that you just saw from the march on the capitol and things like that. And this -- during this day, this is three months before the signing, and it was needed. It was a grass roots that came in. There's people from all over the country as you say grassroots. >> Yes. >> Not only in wheelchairs but people who were deaf, blind, all sorts of disability. >> We had Gallaudet students come and support us. It was -- and one of the things that they tried to do is to separate some of the disabilities, some of the epilepsy. Wanted to say, oh, it's a little different because you can take pills for that. They said well -- and I don't think we should have amputees because they have actually plastic feet that they can put on. And then they definitely didn't want to put in HIV at all because they wanted to separate that. But we said no to everyone of them. It was just no compromise. We're together, and we're going to stay together, and that was one of the biggest I think accomplishments that we -- I'm really proud of -- the disability community stayed together and did. I mean, we're not just a subgroup of a subgroup of a subgroup. We are America, a big part of it. >> Absolutely. Here's a photo of a march we're trying to -- except for the front four going single file -- and the reason for that, of course, is that -- to get more attention. People can see the long line of people that are involved and get an idea of the significance for us. This is in Atlanta, Georgia. At times, it would be five blocks or even more from single lines that would traverse throughout the city. It was really good to hit not just D.C. D.C. is -- everyone hits D.C., protests, nonviolence, and this time we actually did it in places. This was in Georgia. What better place? Martin Luther King. >> Oh yeah. >> So there was -- it's -- it was good to do that. We actually hit Morehouse where he went to college and took over the administration. >> You must have really got your exercise when you were following around all these marches. There are pictures from every angle of you getting way far in advance of them. >> I wish I could do that nowadays a little more, but -- >> Guess where this picture was. >> This must really be old. They're wearing colonial clothes. >> Time travel picture. >> It's either that or I'm guessing maybe Philadelphia. >> Philadelphia. >> Yeah. >> Actually, there was a court case, ADAPT versus [inaudible], and we had Tim Cook who was a lawyer back then, and it was federal court, and it was one of the big cases on transportation back then. And I think that was just before we took over the liberty bell. >> Here's another one with the flag with the wheelchair symbol in, showing the power of what just a few people can do. >> Here's a photo. Is that Bob? >> There's Bob. >> It's kind of -- one that I kind of like not only because it captures something that is very thought provoking . Here's one of my first ones too. It was the first time I had been with ADAPT, and this is inside the police van. Just happened to stick my camera and got a good shot. >> It's so powerful. I think that one picture. I mean, it's as if the wheelchair isn't captivating enough. [Inaudible] to some extent, but you got to have handcuffs on. >> Right. It's -- it became one of my favorite pictures only after years of people really telling me their stories of why they thought it was their favorite picture. >> I mean, when I'm taking a photo I'm in an action, I'm in a world that you -- it's hard to talk to me because I'm in another world. >> I tried to talk to you. You said, "No, not now. I'm working." >> Yeah. That was always a problem too. Everyone kind of knew me and wanted to say hi. And then if that happened a lot then the police would say, "Oh, he's not --." >> Do you know these people? >> Yeah, and they would separate me out. I wouldn't get good shots sometimes because of that. >> Here's a great shot. ^M00:30:10 You've got the flag. You've got the folks with disabilities, and you've got the flag with the disability symbol on and then you've got the capitol building in the background. >> Next to the American flag. >> Good call, Dave. Good call. Yeah. >> This is -- this is the day of the -- that we had the signing. >> The signing of the ADA. >> That's Barbara Nolan, and Barbara Nolan wrote this kind of really neat book back in the 70's and 80's called, "How to Kick Ass and Get What You Want from VR." >> Wow. >> I should have read that book. >> It's still pretty good I hear. It's still -- >> Oh, now this is a super shot here. The liberty bell. That's Diane from Philadelphia, is that right? >> Diane. That's Diane Coleman. >> Diane Coleman, okay. >> Not Dead Yet fame and we had just been in Denver. That's where we made the flag, and we're taking it to Philadelphia for the court case, and this is when we took over the liberty bell, and [inaudible]. Neat thing to do [inaudible]. >> Yeah. Symbol of liberty. Wow. Beautiful shot. All right. Now here's another thing. Of course, all your pictures are my favorite, Tom. But okay, we have Stephanie Thomas in front, the second from the left and then next to her left, our right, is Frank from El Paso. Frank who is totally blind by the way was my attendant once in Dallas. We were on an action, and he would help me get into bed and get me out of bed. Totally blind, but that's -- that's what we do. We help each other out on these. And then -- and the far right is Jennifer. You mentioned before, she was 10 years old at that time, I think. >> Nine or ten. >> Ten, yeah. Jennifer had cerebral palsy, and it -- she and her sister Kailey and her mother were passing through New Mexico. Wade gave me a call and said, "We got some people passing through. Can you put them up?" And I said, "Sure." I had no idea who they were but opened my apartment to them and so I got to know Jennifer and her sister and Mom, which was pretty cool. >> And then this next picture. Tell us about this, Tom. >> Both pictures actually we'll see Michael Winters. He was -- in the early days, he was a [inaudible] director at Berkeley, and then came to D.C. and actually was -- had a civil rights office of the DOT. But that's also Jennifer who both of them started out down below and at this point Michael said, "Okay, this is it. I can't do it anymore." >> And so he made it up three steps and stopped. That was it? >> No, no. Actually, that's a little -- like a ramp or level place, and goes down, and he's just like okay. He sits up like that and he sees Jennifer over there crawling up, and he said, "Oh, shoot. I can't stop now." They're on their way to the top. But -- >> You said Jennifer's ten in this picture. >> Right. Yeah. >> And so she climbed out of her wheelchair, and she said everybody else is going to do it. I'm going to do it, too. >> Yeah. And she probably was shouting all the way. I don't know if you remember her. She had lungs on her. She would lead the -- lead people and chanting a lot. >> Oh yeah. She inspired a lot of people. A lot of people started getting out of their chairs and crawling, following Jennifer. And I think we have another picture. So this whole crawling at the steps, Tom, that you took is a good picture of the capitol in the background, has become known as the capitol crawl. And as I recall, shortly after this picture was taken or made public anyway, people were calling up their senators and saying, "Why did that little girl have to crawl up those steps? What is going on there?" Capitol crawl brought a lot of attention. >> It did. It did. And it was kind of funny because I had a friend come back from Paris the day after, and they said they saw the capitol crawl on the news. >> Oh, my gosh. >> It was like a shot that was -- a video shot that was shot around the world. >> Wow. >> It's really, really important to have these -- have pictures like this because it's not just for historical reasons and all that but when I was living in L.A., I used to carry a notebook that had 5 by 10, 5 by 7 photos, these photos. I used to be a teacher's aide in special ed, and so I always carried it. And I went to different schools and when the time arose at the right time, if the teacher was into it, I got to show the kids the pictures, and I remember this one place. There was a kid in the wheelchair. He was the only kid. It was during the time of them making other classrooms accessible and trying to integrate. But that also meant that you took kids that were together in wheelchairs and sometimes you had kids like this kid that was the only one. And he was probably about -- I'd say about 7 or 8 years old, and the teacher didn't know [inaudible]. You'll walk [inaudible] older, yeah. She didn't know what to do. But I remember taking this book and putting it down and the picture you saw with that line of a lot of people behind that lot, he looked at it. He looked at me. He said, "I don't know that many people in chairs in the world." And of course, he'd never seen it. They never saw -- who photograph people in chairs anyhow? That was like [inaudible] this is not a pity thing. We're not going after money. It was not [inaudible]. Then he saw -- he saw a -- he saw this when he saw -- he saw a lot of strong people, which he had never seen a person with a disability looking strong. >> He'd never seen it on t.v. that's for sure. >> No, back then especially. My gosh. >> So this is a picture with a guy with [inaudible] bicycle. >> Well before that, you're still talking about the crawl? >> Yeah. >> So your pictures not only chronicle history but inspire and bring people to action, cause people to say, "Hey, what's going on? We've got to make change." >> Right. And sometimes it's not even a picture. It's like where you find these pictures. My favorite venue was I had some pictures in the weekly readers. Young people know that one, but it was a newsletter that all kids got going to elementary school. And here was pictures of people that were looking strong and that were disabled. It was the start of still back then you had Frankenstein complex, anyone with a disability is a freak. And so it was good to start turning those things around. >> And of course back then, you're using the 35 mm celluloid. So you get 24, maybe 36 pictures per roll on a camera so the film was expensive. Every time you develop it it's expensive so you have to be a bit judicious in how you take pictures. >> Oh, I know. ^M00:40:17 There was handcuffs one. It was one day of a protest. I only had one roll of film. Only 24 exposures on that one. That's all I could afford. >> Wow. You made it count. Here's a good one of Mike Arberger [assumed spelling]. >> And Bob Kofka [assumed spelling]. >> And Bob Kofka in revolving doors it looks like. >> Yes, and they had me -- they're kryptonite locks. They're bicycle kryptonite locks, and we call them our necklaces for stopping these doors, and they were there for four to eight hours. I can't even remember. >> Whoa. >> It was so funny. The police tried so many ways of trying to get them, and you can't cut them with a grinder. >> Oh, I didn't know that. >> Yeah. >> That's really cool. >> That's the only way you can -- you can't bolt cut them, but you can use a grinder, but who's going to use a grinder, especially when the media is looking. And so what was really funny, they had a utility guy from the -- U.S. federal building, the Russel building, and this -- the utility person came by, and he had a [inaudible] screwdrivers and something. Do you want these chains off? The police said, "We tried. We tried." And he's walking away, and the policeman kind of -- "Well, if you can." He takes a little screwdriver, goes over and these are doors have screws with that where they're tied up. >> The handle? >> Yeah, the handle. [Inaudible] like this. He's like here. 4 to 8 hours. This is a revolving door. They've locked it completely all that time. >> What building was this? Do you remember, Tom? >> Pardon? This is the Russell Federal -- the Federal Building in Atlanta. The Russell Building. >> Oh, okay. >> Which is -- which was kind of a really interesting -- I don't know if it was -- I think it was the next protest at the federal at that building. And it started to rain. They were taking all of the people out of the building, and into the rain, and somehow the word got back to Washington, D.C. We had a few people in the government. One of the people that was very involved in -- especially with us -- was Evan Kemp, Jr. who was the EEOC commissioner at that time, and he had the ear of the senior consul of Bush, had dinners with the president and so he called the -- he called them and said, "We've got people down here. The Federal Building security is taking people out into the rain." And so he told them to not let that happen. And so Atlanta got the word that the president wants the people back in the building. So it was kind of -- one of the first times a president actually got involved in one of the demonstrations. >> Here's the picture using those famous bolt cutters you mentioned. When we -- I guess we got to the point where we didn't want to be moved we started using chains, and they'd pull out the bolt cutters. So we pulled out bigger chains. In fact, I remember when we were in the rotunda months before the ADA, Michael Winters was sitting right in front of me and he reaches -- he reaches around the back of his chair, and he pulls out this big chain. I thought it was like an anchor chain. It was then I knew it was time to get serious. I knew they weren't going to get through that, but yeah, it makes a great picture. >> Yeah. >> It was really funny when Michael was interviewed for a federal job there at DOT, he called me up and said, "When was I arrested? I got to put all this stuff down. The FBI is asking me all these questions." It was kind of -- what's kind of neat is that it became a badge of -- it was not something that you were -- if you did do that, you could not get a job or anything, but it actually helped especially in the civil rights places and different demonstrations. Same way with Karen Tamley, mayor's office person up in Chicago. I mean, a lot of these people were arrested literally hundreds of times. >> Yeah. Very serious. Chains aren't the only thing that are impressive. >> Talk about getting serious. >> Yeah, we were -- we got the city buses accessible, but Greyhound continued to be inaccessible, and people would, during protests, would throw themselves under buses to keep the Greyhound buses from moving. And Danny Saenz from Austin did -- we were in Dallas, and I saw him do that. I couldn't believe it, right under the bus. That shows your commitment. >> Right, right. These things are -- they don't turn off. These are big diesel engines. So theyÕre kept on going, and it was like -- I still have someone say, "I miss that diesel smell [inaudible] back of the bus." Like you said before, Gene, you block one. You're blocking ten. With Greyhound, it's even worse than that because they have to stop all the way across the U.S. >> Oh yeah, yeah. >> When you shut down Austin, shut down St. Louis, those -- some of those routes are long routes. >> Yeah. They have quite an impact. But also we had -- let's take a look at -- here's our friend, Justin Dart who's a leader in the disability community. I remember him traveling around the states and trying to get input on what people thought should be in disability rights laws and so he was recognized everywhere. >> Yeah, a lot because of his hat. >> That hat, yeah, you can't miss that hat. >> Yeah. I've heard different presidents say that every once in a while if they happen to say something about disability they'd look up and look for that hat. His Dad was on the cabinet of Reagan's and so that's how he got into politics. And kind of -- he leaned more toward the democrats, and Evan was a democrat but finally decided, well Bush was probably the president that was going to do something with the ADA, and he was right. So he became a republican [inaudible]. A lot of people switched their allegiances for different reasons, and that picture was also Justin's favorite picture because it was not just him. It was all the people around. He really liked that. >> And here's another picture of Justin Dart on the far right and that guy in the center, that looks like President Bush signing the ADA. >> Signing the ADA. >> Said he would sign it before the ink was even dry on the bill. >> That's Evan Kemp, Jr. on his left. And he [inaudible] up here, and he's a double amputee in the arms but he like a lot of the people back then had long sleeved jacket on. It was kind of funny because right after he goes signing, the president has all these pens that he's signing, stuff like that. ^M00:50:17 The vice president called Don -- Quayle, Don Quayle? >> Dan Quayle. >> Dan Quayle. Right. And takes the picture -- takes the pen out of the president's hand because Reverend Wilke(sp) was invited by the president. That was his personal thing that he wanted to do, and so Dan -- okay, I'm going to do him right. So he gets this pen, and he says -- he tries to have -- >> Rev. Wilke take it? >> Take it. >> Hand it to him? >> And Rev. Wilke is kind of shaking his head. And then Rev. Wilke is kind of moving out of the way so -- and finally he realized that Dan Quayle wasn't going to let him not take it. So he sits down, takes off his shoe and grabbed it by his foot and Quayle is just like -- [inaudible] like a deer in headlights. >> Wow. >> Little thing until you get to see when you're only three feet away. >> Yeah, the advantages of being a photographer. Well, Tom, thanks so much for sharing your photos with us and for chronicling the disability rights movement. It's been quite an education for us, not only for Dave and I but for the whole audience we have here in Austin and for our website, TheGeneandDaveShow.com seen all over the world. So thanks. We appreciate it. >> Speaking of other -- in addition to the -- in addition to all the photos that you have, you also own another treasure. Is that right? Related to the ADA? >> The bus. >> A bus. >> Oh, okay. >> Good one, Dave. Yes. The ADA bus. I'm very familiar. >> Yes, yes. Right now it's parked outside of Austin getting ready to get out there again, and I have a couple of exhibits, one that was just shown at the Kennedy Center in D.C. and some -- and the other -- some of them are from the Smithsonian exhibit. But there's also a lot of photos I get to take out and show from places and what I was involved with Rev Up just a little while ago and still am because I think it's really important. Like I said, it's for local and state politicians to see our history and really taking this around I think is important for people to come down like you all and with the legislators and say this is our history. This is why we're doing -- why we're here. This is how we got here. This is -- and we got to keep on -- we have to do it over and over again. We just can't -- we're not -- African American history -- they have family, familia. Same with Latino civil rights movement. They have something to pass down. We don't have that kind of passing down. We have to do it with our friends, do it with organizations and so it's very, very important for all of us to just go even beyond and make sure our history is given and kept. >> So if there's an organization or somebody that wants to get a hold of you or wants to see more of your pictures, more of your work, how do the do that, Tom? >> Usually I just say Google the Freedom Bus -- ADA Freedom Bus. >> Okay. >> But I should have figured that one out before I came. >> We'll see if we can help you with that. >> Okay. Thank you. >> We'll add the URL on in post production. >> As I usually say in these conversations, that's a good question. >> It's hard to get a hold of Tom. He's kind of a nomad. He just goes wherever that bus takes him what he was telling me earlier. >> And I get to -- in doing that, you get to go places where you're needed. There was a big vote in Michigan on low wages and slave labor of some of our institutions still, and I got to go right there and make a difference. And the press -- having a bus is like a -- it's a big press [inaudible] you can use. And so I had -- I got some good press from the Detroit Free Press just by bringing it up there. >> Yeah. >> So yeah. >> So you started with a T-shirt and ended up with a bus. You figured out how to get into places. >> That's Tom Olin, folks. The most famous photography documenting of the disability rights movement. >> Amazing stories. Thanks so much for being here, Tom. Really appreciate it. >> Oh, my pleasure always. ^M00:56:41 [ Music ]