- [Announcer] Gene and Dave Show. The following program may contain strong language and brief nudity, but don't get your hopes up, after all this is public access TV. This program was made possible from the support of VSA Texas, and Amerigroup. - Hi, my name's Gene. - And I'm Dave. - [Gene] And we're the- - [Both] Gene and Dave Show. - Gene, we've got a special guest today. Desiree Sturdevant is here again although I don't know if you remember, it's been years since she was here. In fact, I think that last time we had her on the Gene and Dave show, she was actually pregnant with her second child. So, how long ago was that Desiree? - Nine years. - Nine years ago. Man, seems like forever! - But then I think I saw you guys at SXSW a couple of times when I was a student then. - Yeah, we've run into each other, but we haven't officially had you on the show for a number of years which is exactly why we wanted to invite you back. Technology changes on a daily, if not an hourly basis. And I know that you're like the technology guru, and you love to use..., whatever you can to live your daily life. - Yeah. - And you're a very active person, so thanks for being on the show again. - Well, thanks for having me. - Sorry, JAWS is yelling. - This is a little new with those glasses. Can you explain to our audience how it is you're blind, but you're wearing glasses? - Well, yeah. So, I just got these glasses. It's called OrCam MyEye, and actually it's regular glasses and then you put magnetic mounts on them. And then there's this little, I don't know if you can see this little camera, that- - Yeah, we see it. - Yeap, so it attaches magnetically to the glasses and then it can read. Let's see, get it on there. Come here. There we go. And it can read text, and it can actually recognize faces and it can do money. And you can basically look at a book. It's all hands free for the most part. You can look at things and have it read the text. So like you can take, I don't know, something with text on it like this. And you can get- - [Alexa] If you're currently in Ramtown, here's an health plan. - So, it just reads it. - [Alexa] 2021. You must - Just that fast like- - Wow, that's cool. - Within seconds. Yeah, and so the nice thing is like I can sit with the kids, and actually read a book. I just literally got them a week and a half ago. And so the first thing I did was I sat down with one of their library books, and just actually turned pages. And as you turned the page, it would read the pages. And so, yeah, it was pretty cool. - That's real fan. That's fantastic. So Gene, I wanna see how it works. Hand Desiree one of those $100 bills you have there in your pocket. Lets see. - I was cleaning out my wallet I got really those small bills, Dave. - [Dave] Oh, okay. - I will take a $500 bill don't worry. - [Desiree] Let's see. - [Dave] Oh, there we go. - So, I have- I have some money here, and I can take a picture of it. - [Alexa] Can't read text. - Nop, well, maybe. - [Alexa] Five dollars. - Five dollars. - Wow, that is awesome. - And I mean, I still fold my money, because then it's easier just to grab, but this way when somebody gives me change I can actually check them, 'cause I mean, people are honest and nobody ever cheats anybody, but- - Right, never happens. - Yeah, exactly. And it can also do like barcodes on food or products, and you can teach it somebody's face. And so then when they walk in front of you, it'll play back whatever you've taught it that person's face. So I have the kids programmed in there, and so when they walk by it's like it'll tell me which one of them it is. I can usually tell anyway without that, but... - Will it work with your dog too? - No, I mean, I could say that she's a product and teach it that, but it'll tell me like things in front of me. It's a fairly new thing, so they're updating as they go, and they're adding different things that it can recognize. Right now, it recognizes like computers, cups, tables, chairs, windows, and like stairwells. And you can talk to it. So I can say, what's in front of me? - [Alexa] Screen in the center. - A screen in the center, okay. So if I was out, it would say a window to your left, or stairs to your right, or whatever. - Whoa! - It doesn't replace a cane or anything like that, but it gives you kind of an idea of where things are so that like I can tell the dog, okay, now go left and find the stairs. Oh, exit. - [Alexa] Exit. - Yeah, she says, I am listening. That's kind of creepy, but... - That's still, that's pretty cool that you can voice activate it. I know that for Gene and I since we've gotten Alexa, it's really changed our world. Do you use any other voice activation software? - Oh, yes. I can, and in fact I'm surprised that when you said her name she didn't do something, 'cause I have a bunch of them around here. - Yeah, I believe I think I've got four or five. So, and I know Gene's got one in about every room. - Yeah, that's about what I have. And although I've had to like change the name on mine, because if then the kids talk to theirs and then it activates all of them, or they cancel my timers of... - Cuts less days. - Can you stop taking pictures? - Desiree, can we have the name of those glasses one more time? - It's called OrCam, O-R-C-A-M. And then MyEye 2. They have Orcam reader. They have some different options for people with different print disabilities. And, actually this would work for them too, because you can actually point to something. It uses like gestures, so you can talk to it, point with it, or you can press the little bar on the camera to get it to do the pictures. - I think this is phenomenal. We'll have a link to their company at our web page, and insert that up the page, but still, I'm still in all. - So, and I actually saw this demonstrated in. They had a demonstration right before Christmas where I could make an appointment, of course, with COVID you have to reserve things. And so I made an appointment and got to see it live, and it was super cool. So I had to. I think it'll help not only just in my personal life, but I think for work. You know, it can be pretty handy. - Oh, sure. - [Desiree] Yeah. - Well, speaking of COVID, how has COVID affected you and your family? - So my little kids will and all of my kids are doing in-person school now for right now, but they did virtual school some last semester. And that's been a little challenging, because they use different platforms when they teach. And sometimes they'll use things like Zoom that is fairly accessible, but other times they use other platforms that are not accessible for me to help them. So that's been a bit of a challenge to kind of get. Like my first grader used, this is called Seesaw, and it's really not accessible to the iPad or the computer. I can kind of see what she's working on, but like helping her do math has been- Now, I should quit that speech I think. Hold on, let me turn my speech off, so it doesn't keep doing that. Okay, there we go. And anyway, yeah. So a lot of it, it's just not accessible to my screen reader, or I use Voice Over on the phone, or JAWS on the computer, or I have a lot of different options, but their platforms aren't always super easy to use especially for the younger kids to help them during school. - Did the school- So, my mom has been here and she's gotten to learn Zoom, and all that kind of fun stuff. - [Alexa] Www- - So, lets take the camera off. - Did this include system indicate they would make improvements, or is this pretty much what we're stuck with? - I mean, I think that they are depending on how long this goes, or if it turns into something that people need to do for whatever reason online school. I know, that Pearson, I work for Pearson now. I didn't know if you guys knew that yet or not. - Yeah, I did. - Anyway, they're trying to make their testing and different things more accessible online. They've been trying for a long time, but I think the pandemic has kind of accelerated that process. So we've been really trying hard to make those kind of products accessible, and they do have Pearson connect like an online school that I haven't really looked into, because in Texas they don't satisfy the Texas curriculum, I guess. So my kids can't actually do it yet, but yeah. So I mean, I think that it's gonna be a necessity to have these things more accessible, and if this continues where we have to do a lot of virtual learning. - [Gene] Yeah. - So in your opinion, what is the best conferencing tool that you've used that's been the most accessible for you? Is it Zoom? - We use Microsoft Teams mostly. - [Dave] At Pearson? - Yeah, and the nice thing about that is that they've actually, since the pandemic it seems like they've incorporated a lot of keystrokes to do things on Teams. And so I can do, control shift M to mute. And I think Zoom has some of that too. When it comes to like using my iPad or my phone, I think that Zoom is probably a little bit more accessible than Teams, but on the computer side, on the windows side, Teams definitely seems to be more accessible. We used to use Google, like Google Hangouts, Google Meet, and all that. And they're fairly good, but then anytime you get somebody sharing their screen, no matter which tool you're using you don't always, JAWS doesn't recognize, 'cause it's like an image. However, that's one of the reasons I got the glasses, because if I take a picture of somebody sharing their screen, some of that text will be accessible and it'll read the text that's on the screen. So... - Wow, that's cool. So - - Okay. So we're back on. - [Desiree] Awesome. - If anyone's interested the way COVID has affected me is I can't really go anywhere, because I can't put a mask on by myself. And- - Ooh! - So, I have my attendant put it on me, and then she leaves for the day and I go out, when I come back I can't take it off. And the other day I went to the bank, and what I usually do is put all my banking info in an envelope and put it in my pocket. And then go to the bank and say, here, just take this out of my pocket. They do whatever needs to be done. But this last time they said no, can't get too close you. - No, too close. - So, I had to get someone else just to pick that envelope and hand it to the teller. So unexpected ways it's been affecting us. - Yeah, I know my dog doesn't understand social distancing. Like, she doesn't. And if I don't take her it's really hard. You know, it used to be if you could go into a store and get somebody to help you, customer service or whatever, but now they don't want you to hold their arm or anything. And it's kinda hard to follow somebody. At six feet distance you can't hear where they are, and then sometimes, I mean the masks make it hard to understand what they're saying to you. It's just- - Yeah, absolutely. - It's crazy. Yeah. I mean, and I was working from home before, so that part of my life didn't change. I was already remote working. Our whole team is all over the place. And so that part has been pretty much the same, but it's hard to kind of connect. You miss that human connection in person. So I guess SXSW is gonna be virtual this year and all of that. So- - Oh, I wouldn't change that. - Yeah. - Desiree, the last time we interviewed you you were using Audacity to edit your music. Is that right? - Yes. - [Gene] Do you still? - I don't use Audacity as much now. I use stuff on my iPhone. I use GarageBand or I use, I have a new app that I just downloaded over Christmas that's called Ferrite. It's like a recording app, and it'll record like using the iPhone microphone or you can plug in another microphone. And then I can take it and edit it, and do different things with it using Voice Over. I still use Audacity every now and then, but if I want to do, a lot of times when I wanna do recording, I need it to be portable. So this is a good portable option to record. And then I have my, this is called- I don't know if you can see this, but it's my mini braille display. - How does that work? - And it actually, it controls my phone, but it also has a built-in note-taking features. It actually has a web browser, and it has a camera on the back. So technically I could use this device with an app. It's a Google. It does like Android apps. And so I can download like KNFB Reader, or a Voice Dream Reader, and I can take a picture and then it'll put it on into braille. So, but it's not as accurate as the glasses. Like you have to really, the hard part about the phone or anything with a camera like this is trying to hold it steady. The glass is kind of you have to just make sure your head stays still, but you don't have to try to hold the camera over everything and get a clear picture. - Yeah, and that braille reader is a lot smaller than the one you used to have when you lagged around? - Well, I have them, and I have my bigger one too. This one is my big braille display that's hooked to my computer. - Okay. - And it's what it really does. This one is a good work tool, because it actually it's got the braille keyboard here, but then it also has like windows keys like escape and all the F keys. And it has the windows key. And so I can literally use this if I wanted to instead of my laptop keyboard. And a lot of times I'll do that, and it'll do Bluetooth or USB. And so I can basically control my computer. I can have it for the kids for school. It was nice, 'cause I could have the keyboard facing them, but I could still control the program if I wanted to through my keyboard. So yeah, technology definitely has helped throughout all of this. - And it's amazing how quick it changes. I mean, these the glasses thing that you have is just amazing to me. - Yeah, I know. I'm still learning. And my kids get mad at me now when I don't wear them. They're like, "You need to put your glasses on mum." - [Gene] Whoa! - Yeah, so they think they're fun. And especially just being able to sit there and read a book. Any book that you want. I don't have to wait and order it in braille, or try to scan it on the scanner and then read. And I made those things work. I had, what I used to do sometimes is I'd have them take a picture of the page for me with my phone, and then I could read it with them through my phone. So... - I really remember years ago if someone got a book in braille, I mean that thing could be a foot tall. - Yeah. - Really, very much. - Oh, yeah. Yeap, I used to have a Bible in braille and it was 16 volumes, I think. Huge volumes of material though. - Whoa! - However, if anything ever happened and we didn't have technology, I think that's scary to me. Like- - Yeah. - And everything just went down and no technology, I'd be like back in the dark age. - What if there were some bacteria that ate batteries, and something like that. - Yeah. - Yeah, it would be hurting for certain. Well, Desiree is there a place people can go to hear your music? - I got- - No, I've not even published anything. It's been a long time since I've... I've been working pretty much 40 hour work weeks, and... - And she's got three kids, Gene. - [Desiree] Yeah, you know. - And one is cracking. - Get cracking, yeah. Well, I've got to get rid of that construction over here I can't do any recording. You can hear everything. But yeah. - But Desiree, I saw some stuff on the internet the other day about the new iPhone and the AI that's built into it. In the demonstration I saw, there's like a proximity sensor in it that could tell you as somebody approached how far away they were which has been good to have in the pandemic. Have you seen that or have you tried that? - I have the new iPhone, but is this coming up or is it in the, like the iPhone 12? - No, I think it's in the iPhone 12. It might just be the pro-model, because I think the pro has the AI built into it that the regular one might not have. - Yeah, I've got the mini. I've got the iPhone mini. I had the 11 pro, but what I was finding is that when I have these small braille devices, I couldn't put my phone in the little case with my braille device. So it, I got the smaller one thinking that's so much easier to- - Carry around. - Carry it, yeah. But that's interesting. That would be something I would love to play with, and see how, you know, and especially if we're gonna have to keep this six foot distance thing going for ever. - Desiree, did you get the memo from Dave that we wanted you to sing five of your favorite songs? - Five songs? No, you did not send me that memo. - Started down from eight. - No, well, you have to make up a song about technology. Oh, it's been a while. It's been a while. - I can remember you telling me in our first interview we were talking about technology, and I think I asked what other things that you did as a mom that or not necessarily technology related. And you told me this story about tying bells to the shoes, so that you knew all the time where your kids were, because their little bells on their shoes were ringing. Do you have any other examples like that as your kids have gotten older, some little mom tricks that you've done? - Well, yeah. And my littlest one figured out the bell thing pretty fast, and she took off them. And then I had to start pinning them on the back of her shirt. You know, now that they're older, it's the hardest part. I think as much as I love technology, I think one of the hardest parts of parenting now is the kids have access to so much early on. They have tablets and computers, and all these different things. My kids got a Nintendo Switch for Christmas. And so for me, it's been trying to learn all of these different ways that I can have a little bit of control over what they have access to. And so, making sure that whatever they get, if whether it's... Now I can buy a Kindle tablet and it talks. I can set it up for them. I can turn on voice view on the Kindle, and the gestures are pretty much the same as the iPhone. And so I can basically control from the beginning, and set it up for them. And that was never an option before. Now, you can get TVs that talk. And so I can go in there, and set up parental controls or whatever I need to do for that. So I think that's kind of the new and upcoming challenges to let them have access and learn the technology, but kind of be able to guide them as they learn. Now, my oldest she's a pro she knows all the technology. She's good, but she... Yeah, try getting a driver a car insurance when you don't have a driver's license. It's really interesting. - Oooh! - Cause we bought a car so she could drive to school and different things. And, but they weren't gonna give me car insurance, because I didn't have a, like I have an ID, but I don't have a license, and she has a permit. She's got her license now, but of course that made the insurance go way up. - Right, right. - But yeah, I think just back to your question, I think it's an interesting time for parents and just trying to guide them. They don't need so much, although they can still be pretty sneaky. For kids, yeah. - The little one especially I was trying to teach her, hey, when I call you, you need to answer me, check back with me. And I will say it's kind of fun when we go out and walking to use GPS on my iPhone just to be able to say, okay, where are we? Especially moving to a new neighborhoods. - All right. - Oh, yeah. - Everything around, you know. And I use, sometimes I use Aira, and I'm sure you guys have heard of Aira. - No, tell us about Aira. - I know a little bit, but Dave you might wanna listen up. - Yeah, it's spelled A-I R-A, and basically it's a service that pairs you with someone sighted, and you use your phone's camera, and you can call them or whatever. It's kind of like a FaceTime, but you've got to have internet connection and all of that. And they train them to kind of give you an idea of what's around you. You can have them if you're out. And like before COVID we went to the mall, and I wanted to go from Pennies down to like the kids' play place. And so they were able to look up the directory and all of that for me. And then I'd use my phone camera and have kind of hold that, and they would tell me what we were passing in the mall. And they would basically guide us all the way from one place to another. So it's a pretty cool service too. And, but of course it relies on being able to get in touch with another person. And if your internet connection is not stable, then it doesn't always work as well. - I think Dave and I saw something like that heading South by Southwest a couple of a while back. And so if you, let's say you wanted to make a cup of coffee and for whatever reason were totally unfamiliar with your kitchen, you could hold your phone up pointing it to the cupboard, and the voice on the other end can say, oh, your coffee is in second shelf on the left, and described whatever you need and even help you measure sure out whatever you need. - Yeap. I actually had them help me program my coffee pot, so I could set the timer on it to have it make sure it comes on early in the morning. And so they were able to tell me which button to press and then what the display was showing, and then press this button to set the time. And they can, if they have the model numbers, they look at manuals. I mean, they have some serious training, and I would think it would be kind of a good job to have right now, because they do it from home, you know? - Sure. - [Gene] Yeah. I never thought about that, but yeah. - But now they just need a hands-free option. They used to use horizon glasses and they've discontinued them, because the connection to them was not really reliable. So they're trying to find a workable hands-free option to where you can wear glasses like I have on, and instead of having to hold the phone camera it would use a camera to see what was around. And then they would say, turn your head to the left, turn your head to the right. - Right, 'cause I imagine it was kind of hard to set your coffee maker when you've got your phone in one hand, and you're just trying to push all the buttons with your other one, yeah. - Right, right. And then, whether you're out and about like it's a lot harder to use a cane or a dog, and then have to hold the phone up so they can see out of the camera, you know? - Yeah, you almost need another arm. I have always said that. With three or four arms, I'd be set. - You'd be all right, yeah. - Yeap. - Well, Desiree is there anything you'd like to share with our viewing audience about the world of the blind in this new age of technology and COVID that would be helpful to them? Products or practices? I think, other than driving a car, technology definitely gives us a lot of independence and freedoms that we wouldn't have had even, well, I mean even 10 years ago. Do you have any words of wisdom you'd like to share with our viewing audience either about technology, or philosophy, or anything that can help us out in this new age? - I think just being flexible. I think we're very lucky and blessed to live in the time that we do. what that phone number is, - Could be the FBI. - Maybe they're coming for me. Yeah, so I think that we're very lucky to live in an age where we have access to all of these different options, whereas even 10 years ago, we didn't have the same level of independence. And other than driving a car, I can pretty much do everything that I wanna do. And, finding my way around a new neighborhood. And there's a ton of resources out there, and a ton of helpful apps as well as products like the OrCam, and different things that can really enhance your lifestyle. - Yeah. - Very be cool. - The technology you're using the eyeglasses Desiree, is that paid for by insurance, Medicaid, Medicare, or anything like that? - Not as of now. I mean, they have a financing option that you can you can finance it, so you don't have to pay it all upfront. And once you do it once, if they have updates, you get those for free. And then you also get like if they do a new version of it in two years, you basically only have to pay a little bit so you get credit for what you have as a trade in towards the newer device, if they come up with a new device 'cause they're always coming out with new things as we know. But, yeah. So as far as I know, insurance doesn't cover it. Eventually, I think rehab places like Texas Workforce Commission, or different places like that may purchase those for people if they need them for their jobs, or their everyday lives kind of thing. So hopefully, 'cause I think that that was the main complain I saw on these glasses was the price tag, and people that are on fixed incomes don't have that kind of finances to be able to purchase it. - Right, having a disability is expensive. - It is. It really is. Yeah, trying to keep up with everything. - If you're using them for work Desiree, you might be able to write them off, and say non-reimbursable work related expense on your terms. - Yeap. That's true. That's true. - Something to look forward to. - Yeah, yeap. And I hope they can be helpful. If we find that they can be helpful and using different products for testing, then maybe we can make a deal with the company. Like, hey, we're helping you sell all these glasses. Can you give me a discount on the new ones? Or, you know, you never know. - Yeah. - You're a rock star and people recognize you, so they'll think you went for it back there. - So, Desiree I know at one time you used to write a blog. Do you still have time for any of that, or? - I haven't been blogging. I mean, we've been blogging on our Pearson blog, but I haven't been doing the Knobility blog. I know that they still have updates to it, I believe. But you know, one of the things that we've been working for at Pearson is that they have, it's called Pearson Able. And it's basically all of the employees throughout Pearson that have disabilities. And so we blog about different technologies, different things that affect accessibility, that kind of thing. - So, is there a specific website for that that people can check out? - Well, its always- - Or is it for internal? Okay. - Yeah, so for now, we have some public facing things I think that are coming up. We're in the process of building our website that'll be public facing that would go out, and introduce our accessible products to people. So once that happens, I think a lot of our information will become public. - Excellent, we're looking forward to that. - Yeah, it's so good to see you guys again. It's been so long. - Yeah, it has been. You know, I remember, I think it's, well, your oldest daughter now. She wanted to take you to the bus stop, 'cause she wanted to take care of you. - Yeap. - And you said, "No, I've got to take care of you." - That's right. That's right. I have to take care of you guys, and that's my job. So, crazy times though. - Well, we thank you so much for your time. Dave, did you have any other questions? - No, that was it. I'm just still, I'm amazed by these glasses. It's just- It's the coolest thing I've heard of in the longest time. So, that's awesome. - Absolutely. - Yeap, and I'm learning more about them every day just still trying to kinda get used to the interface and that. So it's- - using for Desiree is if your car needs fixing, you go to the shop where they fix it. And you could be watching the mechanic, and the glasses could be telling you, mechanic is trying to cheat you by loosening the certain part. - He said you needed new tires and you don't. - We could all use glasses like that. - Yes, yeap. It's amazing what they can do for sure. - Well, Desiree if it's all right with you, we'd like to use one of your songs as the closing song and on show. And if you wouldn't mind sending one of your songs to a MP3 to Dave and myself we use it at the end. And if you do mind, it doesn't matter we'll find it out on the web somewhere. - It's not on the web. The only song I have on the web right now that I know of is, huh? A video- Did you ever hear "The Sound of Equality"? - No, I don't think so. - It was a music video that was produced by Pearson, like gosh, probably eight years ago, seven, eight years ago. And it was basically the sound of silence, but they wrote words about accessibility and for students. And so it was called "The Sound of Equality". And so it answers like how it feels in a classroom without technology, and you're just kind of put in a corner and you sit you don't understand what's going on. And then because of technology, now you can read the handouts and you can look at the websites and all of that, but they have to be accessible. So yeah, that might be the only one that is public somewhere. - There's another one. We recorded you on our show last time. Was it sweet baby mine or something like that? - Oooh, Oooh! I did that, did I? That's right, "Baby Mine". Yeah, it's been awhile since I've done one, so, if I can find something at all I can send you that music video too. It's kind of fun. - Then, or any of your favorites. And I think we might be able to add on a segment of our last interview just so people can see how you edit on Audacity, - 'cause- - Yeah. - I'm still amazed by that. So that's how my people will add that on to until the end of the show, and see you next time. - Cool. - On the Gene and Dave show. - Anytime, anytime. So with this particular product, I can actually recreate my own musical scores and it'll put it on a staff for someone to read it, to sight read it, to be able to print it out and read it. So that's one of the first ways that technology has really empowered musicians with disabilities especially blind musicians. And then the last thing that I use very extensively isn't on the web, but it is a software program that is accessible. It's called Audacity. And with Audacity, I can record my vocals or my instrumentals depending on what I'd like to do, and I'm able to make home recordings of myself. I'm a singer, I'm a voice major. So this is a software called Audacity and it's free. And it's a recording software that enables me to create music whether I wanna do instrumentals or vocals. And then I'm able to edit them, create MP3s, make CDs, whatever I wanna do with those, and play them back. And I can put different kinds of sound effects there as well like echo and different things to make to enhance the sound part of the recording. ♪ Baby mine, don't you cry ♪ ♪ Baby mine, dry your eyes ♪ ♪ Rest your head close to my heart ♪ And this program is free, and it's very accessible. - Alright, well, so long folks, we'll see you on the next Gene and Dave Show. - Bye now. - [Gene] Adios. - [Narrator] And can mom afford to have help preparing her meals? We know what you're going through. Amerigroup has a plan for people with Medicaid that helps them get the services they need to live at home. Amerigroup, choose us for helping your loved ones live at home. Call 1-800-964-2777. - Let's see, let's play one Nadia. Woo, listen Nadia. - "Here comes the sun".